Posts by Sea Breeze

20

Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's how this verse should read: .

take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .

Sea Breeze

@Earnest

We have already discussed that writings of early church leaders were hopelessly corrupted by the fourth century.

And that charge has been roundly defeated. You have shown no evidence of this charge. Where is the push-back that would have come from the disciples of the apostles? It is the other way around isn't it? The disciples of the apostles were fighting heresies, which is the reason they wrote so much material for us to check with,

We have thousands of pages from the 1-4th centuries. So, your claims are easily fact-checked and defeated.... as have been so thoroughly demonstrated on this thread.

20

Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's how this verse should read: .

take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .

Sea Breeze

@Ernest

When one can choose between four textually valid readings it is absurd....

Your premise is unfounded. There are not 4 equally valid readings of this passage. This is easily proven by how the early church leaders quoted and paraphrased this passage.

Aqwsed and I have provided numerous examples of these in our previous posts on this thread. How do you propose to overcome those?

2

Hebrews 1: 8 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower translates this verse like this: .

but about the son, he says: “god is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

- hebrews 1: 8 nwt.

Sea Breeze

The Watchtower translates this verse like this:

But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. - Hebrews 1: 8 NWT

But it should read like this:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. - KJV

Why did the Watchtower change this verse?

20

Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's how this verse should read: .

take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .

Sea Breeze

@aqwsed

Early Christian writers like Ignatius of Antioch, in his Epistle to the Ephesians (ca. 107 CE), unabashedly spoke of “the blood of God,” (Note: Antioch was where the term "Christians" was first used)

Ignatius of Antioch is traditionally believed to have been a disciple of John the Apostle along with Polycarp.

He was simply repeating what him and John and Polycarp repeatedly talked about, and what is clearly taught in scripture. Otherwise he would have been abandoned as a heretic.

Ignatius of Antioch, writing to the Ephesian community to which the elders belonged, exhorts them to “rekindle yourselves in the blood of God,” echoing Acts 20:28

More from Ignatius:

He uses the phrase "blood of God" in his letter to the Ephesians, stating that they "took on new life through the blood of God". He also refers to "Jesus Christ, our God" and his blood as the means of salvation.

He also wrote:

"Being the followers of God, and stirring up yourselves by the blood of God, ye have perfectly accomplished the work which was beseeming to you."

Tertullian:

Tertullian writes, regarding Christians: "So far as I know, we are not our own, but bought with a price; and what kind of price? The blood of God."

The overwhelming evidence for anyone truly seeking salvation, friendship, and peace with God is that: The Christian God bleeds. If anyone is seeking any other kind of god, they got the wrong God, the wrong Jesus, and the wrong Savior.

20

Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's how this verse should read: .

take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .

Sea Breeze

Should Acts 20:28 then be understood to refer to the blood of God the Father?

No, God is a triune being, but only one substance - one God, three persons. God the Son, of the same essence as the Father and H.S. was permanently fused with the son of Mary. This is why/how God can bleed.

57

How Did Watchtower Sell the "Jonadab" Concept ?

by Sea Breeze in

simply put; gullible people were told if they chose life on earth instead of heaven, they wouldn't have to die.

that's how they sold it.

the watchtower lied to people in the 1920 booklet and convention series titled "millions now living will never die!

Sea Breeze

In conclusion, the “nothing” of physics is always a kind of something—a quantum vacuum, a potential, a set of laws—never the absolute nothingness of metaphysics.

Most internet atheists are materialists. This tempts them to sometimes try to describe "nothing" as something with no mass, unable to see, touch, or measure. However, most are familiar with high school physics where we learned how light travels as both a wave and a particle. While travelling as a wave, it is nothing more than a mathematical probability function. Upon observing it however, the wave function collapses into physical particles called photons. Photons are detectible by the receptors in our eyes.

This first video describes the wave function of light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuv6hY6zsd0&ab_channel=Veritasium

This second video explains how it collapses into particles immediately upon observation (almost like it was made for us)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfGRO6msQw&ab_channel=Newsthink

It has also been demonstrated that chunks of matter (several hundred atoms) can also travel as a wave and collapse into matter.

So when Creationists ask atheists how did nothing create everything, we mean the total absence of matter, waves, numbers, probabilities, electric charges and potential values - everything.

57

How Did Watchtower Sell the "Jonadab" Concept ?

by Sea Breeze in

simply put; gullible people were told if they chose life on earth instead of heaven, they wouldn't have to die.

that's how they sold it.

the watchtower lied to people in the 1920 booklet and convention series titled "millions now living will never die!

Sea Breeze

"Moreover, external corroboration exists: Josephus and Tacitus (despite atheist efforts to dismiss or minimize), Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, and even the hostile Talmudic references collectively affirm the core elements: Jesus existed, was crucified, his followers proclaimed his resurrection, and this movement exploded in the immediate aftermath. If you dismissed every ancient historical fact that is as well-attested as Jesus’ death by crucifixion, you would be left in a sea of agnosticism so deep you’d drown before breakfast."

Tough of Grey, I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you.

Spilled Coffee GIFs | Tenor

57

How Did Watchtower Sell the "Jonadab" Concept ?

by Sea Breeze in

simply put; gullible people were told if they chose life on earth instead of heaven, they wouldn't have to die.

that's how they sold it.

the watchtower lied to people in the 1920 booklet and convention series titled "millions now living will never die!

Sea Breeze

@TouchofGrey

How does presenting zero evidence for your worldview translate into "being honest"? How does that remotely translate into reasonable? If you don't understand your position, why adopt it? Didn't we all do that before?

By contrast, I presented you with evidence from most scholars which includes many (probably most) who are hostile to biblical Christianity.

Go ahead explain them. Let's take a look at your explanations to the 12 facts.

If you run from the challenge and just spike the ball anyway, it makes you appear foolish and ignorant. Didn't you get a belly full of that feeling as a recovering cult survivor? I know I did.

57

How Did Watchtower Sell the "Jonadab" Concept ?

by Sea Breeze in

simply put; gullible people were told if they chose life on earth instead of heaven, they wouldn't have to die.

that's how they sold it.

the watchtower lied to people in the 1920 booklet and convention series titled "millions now living will never die!

Sea Breeze

@TouchofGrey

These 12 facts are agreed to by most scholars who publish in the area of 1st century Christianity. This list is a concession to the harshest of skeptics proving that even if we only use the bible books and sources they except, which aren't many, a person can arrive at this minimum list. It is strong evidence.

By contrast, can you provide any examples that would lead you to believe atheist miracles?

Atheist Miracles:

1. Existence Comes from Non-existence

2. Order Comes from Chaos

3. Life Comes from Non-Life

4. The Personal Comes from the Non-Personal

5. Reason Comes from Non-Reason

6. Morality Comes from Matter

I am not qualified to give answers to those points that you have raised.

Since you choose to present ZERO evidence for your worldview, isn't it possible that the same taking snake that deceived our first mother has deceived you as well?

20

Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's how this verse should read: .

take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .

Sea Breeze

Numerous early church fathers referenced or commented on Acts 20:28. Here are some examples:

Tertullian: Tertullian, a prolific Christian author from the 2nd and 3rd centuries, made frequent reference to this verse, which he used to support his views, especially regarding marriage and its connection to the "blood of God".

Hippolytus: A 3rd-century theologian, Hippolytus, in his work "The Refutation of All Heresies," referenced Acts 20:28 in the context of addressing the emergence of heresies and the importance of preserving the unity and doctrines of the Church.

Peter of Alexandria: Another 3rd-century figure, Peter of Alexandria, referenced Acts 20:28 in his "Genuine Acts of Peter".

John Chrysostom: The renowned 4th-century preacher and Patriarch of Constantinople, John Chrysostom, commented on Acts 20:28 in his Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles. He emphasized the importance of the elders' role as overseers, their ordination by the Holy Spirit, and the preciousness of the Church, which was purchased with Christ's blood.

Apostolic Constitutions: This collection of liturgical and disciplinary regulations, though compiled later (around the 4th century), also includes references to Acts 20:28 within its prayers and exhortations concerning the role of bishops and the Church as purchased by Christ's blood.

Other Fathers: Various other early church fathers like Irenaeus, Cyprian, Origen, Ambrose, Jerome, and others also referenced Acts 20:28.

None of the quotes and paraphrases include the word "son".

@SBF Why didn't the early Christian leaders quote and paraphrase this verse like you and Watchtower does?